Interview with Womancake Magazine
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Maria Leonard Olsen Revels in Discomfort
She's a a bi-racial attorney, podcaster, author, journalist, mentor to women in recovery, and a world traveller who believes discomfort is key to serenity.
MAR 29
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Welcome to the Womancake interview! You're joining us from Lima Peru, please tell me the current temperature?
Maria Leonard Olsen: It's a balmy 80 degrees!
Wow! So what are you doing today in Lima?
Well tomorrow I’ll be going to the Amazon, but today I’m going to visit the #1 restaurant in Latin America which is located here in Lima, it’s called Central, and I have a welcome event with the group that I’m traveling with.
That is very much in line with the theme of your amazing book, “50 After 50”, which I found so inspiring. This year I’m turning 50 and I've already started my list of 50 new things I'm going to do. Is there anything in particular that you feel I should add to my list?
I would say add a few things that are stretching your comfort zone, because then you will learn from these things. There are a few things in my book that I’m never gonna do again, but they helped me to gain confidence and courage, because I move through the feelings of fear. Try to include things like lifestyle changes, spiritual endeavors, thrill-seeing ventures. Since we are in the third third of our life, actuarially speaking, prioritizing is very important, because time marches on and you never know, our lives are happening right now.
Are there any brand-new things you’ve done since you turned 50 that you've just loved?
So many things! I mean, I’m a little bit of an excitement junkie right now. I went paragliding in the Andes mountains, and I’m afraid of heights! That’s not something I would have done before I turned 50. I was scared but I did it anyway, and it was glorious. Another thing I did was I went to Antarctica, my 7th continent, and I did the Polar Plunge. And it was terrible, but I felt good about having done it. And I camped on the ice in Antarctica. It wasn’t pleasant but I’m still really pleased with myself that I did it.
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Amazing. Can you talk a bit more about living in your discomfort zone?
Oh, absolutely. I believe that it’s a form of growth, and if we don't keep growing that’s a form of atrophy in various ways. I know from my friends and family that our bodies are in decline as we age, and so while I can do physically rigorous things I’m going to do them! I went on a bike tour yesterday and I was by far the oldest person on the tour, and I pride myself on setting a good example for young people to let them know that you can do all this stuff if you keep active. So I strive to stretch my comfort zone continually because I think it helps me grow as a human, and it helps me obtain more compassion, understanding and relatability. Life for me is all about experiences, not material things.
“I strive to stretch my comfort zone continually because I think it helps me grow as a human, and it helps me obtain more compassion, understanding and relatability. Life for me is all about experiences, not material things.”
The theme of our first issue is flourishing. Is there a particular environment, activity or state of mind that helps you flourish?
First and foremost being open, open to the lesson, open to the experience, open to the magnitude of miracles small and large that surround us everyday. Being more present and allowing myself to feel the feelings whether they are positive or negative, because I used to run from my feelings. Now I acknowledge them and I use something called Dialectical Behavioral Therapy to ride feelings like waves. If I feel myself racing I’ll often anchor myself to the moment by focusing on something in my environment, something I can see, taste, smell, hear, just to bring myself back to the moment so I can fully experience it and not be off thinking about something else.
Do you have any other daily wellness practices that are meaningful to you?
My meditation that I practice most often is the 16-second meditation, which is to breathe in for a count of 4, hold for a count of 4, and breathe for a count of 4. When I am focusing on my breath I am more present and I cannot be simultaneously worrying about the future or fretting about the past. It helps center me for whatever life puts on my path next. I use this technique every day, for work, for almost everything.
I am struck by the fact that you sound like an artist when you talk, but yet you are in fact an attorney by profession. Can you talk a little about that and how it relates to your identity?
Yes, I am an attorney. I didn’t know what I wanted to do when I graduated from college. My mother is an immigrant from the Philippines, and many Filipino immigrants want their children to be doctors or lawyers. I don’t do well with blood, so she knew that wasn’t going to happen. I basically went to law school because I thought it would buy me three more years to figure out what I wanted to do, and that a degree can be used in many different ways. When I graduated I got an offer from one of the biggest firms in Washington DC and I had a lot of student loan debt, so I took the job thinking it would be temporary, and paid off my loans. I realized and got a lot of validation for the fact that I’m good at being a lawyer, I’m very resourceful. But my passion is writing, public speaking, helping other women, and so I’ve found a way to marry my interests while doing my law job. I'm a civil litigator in Washington DC which luckily I can do remotely, enables me to travel the world and have all these experiences. And so I’m able to bifurcate my life where I have this very serious litigation job, but I also have all these passions that I’m able to enjoy simultaneously. And I feel so blessed that I found a way to do this, because it's unusual to have this kind of a life, and I’m very grateful.
What does wisdom mean to you at this stage of your life?
I just read a really good quote about this recently: when something painful happens, when it stops hurting then you have achieved wisdom. If you have processed it, if you can speak about it without wincing, without feeling hurt or shame then you’ve gleaned some bit of wisdom, whether that its the fact that you can survive, or that this thing can no longer hurt you, there are a lots of different kinds of wisdom. I did experience a number of traumas that took me decades to process, or actually be willing to process, but it doesn’t hurt anymore. So I’m using my life’s trauma as a force for good to help other people.
“…When something painful happens… if you have processed it, if you can speak about it without wincing, without feeling hurt or shame then you’ve gleaned some bit of wisdom, whether that its the fact that you can survive, or that this thing can no longer hurt you, there are a lots of different kinds of wisdom.”
Beautiful. What is an aspect of your character that you've grown to love, and one that you still struggle with?
Well I grew up in a very white neighborhood, school, community, workplace, and I used to be self-conscious about being a brown woman in these settings, but I’m not anymore. Number one, I revel in my uniqueness, I’ve learned to celebrate it. Number two I realize that it gives me a unique platform to be biracial, it gives me relatability to people of color in some settings. Number three I’m turning 60 soon, and I don’t have any wrinkles. And all my white friends are wrinkling. So some of us in the asian communities say, “Asians don’t raisin” and I’m happy about that!
An aspect of myself that I’m still working on, a couple of things: I would like to be able to be just constantly present, constantly aware, and I have to work at that every day. It’s not something that comes easy to me. I am someone who prides myself on being very prepared for what’s coming next to the extent that I can, and that detracts from my ability to just revel and savor the present moment.
Is there a female figure from your childhood, real or fictional, that had a profound effect on you, positive or negative?
Oh, yes. My maternal grandmother is one of the strongest women I’ve ever met, and she came to the US when I was born to help take care of me. And while she was a teacher in the Philippines she was not so prideful that she couldn't find a job here that was definitely beneath her station, if one considers those things. She became a housekeeper at a house across the street from my father’s house so she could be near us, and she was OK with it. And she’d had a lot of house staff in the Philippines, but here she became one, and in retrospect I have a lot of respect for that. She also was giving birth to my mother when the Japanese were bombing the Philippines, Manilla, in World War 2. And within hours of giving birth they were evacuated to an island nearby to escape the bombing. When she was on the island she looked around and she thought, ‘We’re going to run out of food here!’
So she instructed her husband to collect all the coconuts and put them under the house that they’d been assigned. Well they did run out of food, and my grandmother says she started selling the coconuts to all the other evacuees and made a really hefty profit. She was a great entrepreneur, she started other businesses. And when I was going through some of my darkest days a therapist said to me, ‘Think about our lineage, think about someone who was really strong in your lineage, channel her power. Channel her right now”. And sometimes when I’m feeling low I think about my Nana and I feel buoyed by having had her in my life. And she was just an amazingly strong, unpretentious woman who taught me very profound and prosaic lessons that I still use.
Beautiful. Would you share an event from your life that created a distinct before and after, and what wisdom you gleaned from that?
Sure. I got sober on August 28th, 2012. And that marked the beginning of a better way of living for me. I had used alcohol as a crutch since my early teens up until age 15. I’d used it so I didn’t have to be introspective, I didn’t like being introspective because I had a lot of darkness in me, a lot of childhood trauma I had not processed. When you get sober and use the 12 steps of alcoholics anonymous you are encouraged to change all the people, places and things that were in your orbit when you were sick, aka alcoholic. So I had to basically start over, and while I felt rudderless, I had this amazing group of sober sisters to help me navigate. I still go to AA meetings, I’m in Peru and I’m going to AA meetings and AlAnon meetings. I practice gratitude, I believe in something bigger than myself and have expanded my spiritual practices, and I pay it forward.
What advice would you give to someone who is currently going through a similar situation?
Well, the Pandemic made it really easy to try out a lot of meetings online, and I would recommend that you try 6 different meetings until you find one that is safe and that you can relate to the people who are speaking. I mean they are all safe spaces but we’re human, so you’re likely going to relate more to some people who share common interests, or are relatable to you for whatever reason. AA attracts a wide swath of humanity, and I have learned from homeless people, I have learned from US Senators in the rooms. Be open minded, be open and willing and honest, and you will get just so many good things out of a 12-step meeting.
Thank you. Ok so, what are you most looking forward to on the road ahead of you?
I am seeking to go to 65 countries by the end of my 65th year. And I’m at number 58 right now.
Lastly, would you share a beauty product, book or life hack that you find invaluable?
Victor Frankel’s book, “Man’s Search for Meaning” is the most impactful in my life. He was a survivor of the concentration camps in World War 2 and became a psychiatrist. And one of the lessons in his book is that everything can be taken from a person but one thing, and that is our ability to choose our attitude in any given situation. So I can choose to dwell in the negativity, or I can choose to look for the silver lining. I can choose to allow someone to breach my serenity, or I can choose to have this invisible forcefield of strength and serenity and let it just fall away. I, you, get to choose.
Maria can be found on her website, which contains links to all her socials. You should definitely follow her Instagram, it’s fire!
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
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Serving big slices of wisdom from women age 40+
Womancake is a magazine and podcast that features essays, interviews, articles, roundups, visual art, and poetry by women over age 40. Our focus is on sharing potent wisdom that comes from our individual and collective experiences. We are deeply committed to highlighting the value of older women as a powerful social, cultural, economic and political force. Subscribe to get full access to the newsletter and website.
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Editor In Chief: Alicia Dara is a nationally recognized speech and presentation coach who has taught CEOs, Global VPs, Executive Directors and thousands of career women from around the world. Her essays on the power of women’s voices have been published in Oldster, Thrive Global, Lioness Magazine, Medium and others. “Embodying wisdom means our choices are not informed by fear or shame, but by deep insights and strong inner guidance that come from our individual and shared experiences. This is how every older woman can contribute to and guide our communities, and it's what we all should do!”
Managing Editor: Johanna Dokken has 20+ years experience in visual design, editorial content strategy and consumer research and communications for a range of industries and organizations. Her writing has been featured professionally for publications such as Actively Northwest and Medium. As Womancake’s managing editor, she seeks to amplify the “slices” of voices of women who are barreling past 40, have stories and perspectives to share. Her identities include frazzled mom, ambitious stepparent, committed spouse, stymied daughter, all knowing older sibling, abundant advice giver and seeker, and reluctant rule follower. Her passions include art, yoga, roller skating, and exploring the greater Pacific Northwest. “We all have our own paths and perspectives. Our understanding of the world is enriched by lived experience and learning from those around us. Embracing our individual identities through stories that are celebrated and shared opens us up to continuous growth at every stage of life.”
Contributing Editor: Amy Holan